Talking About Stuff, with Mike and Christiana

PC: (Christian writer on new Dr. Who) Much of Western literature has Christian subtext, even when it is not overt. Of course, there are often denominational problems when interpreting subtext.

JR: (Jewish fantasy novelist) I like to set up fantasy religions based on Christianity / Judaism, to explore variations within the main structure. Like Phillip Pullman, many writers like to "interrogate" religion. Then there's things like "Left Behind", why are they so popular?

GS: (Writer) Big difference between using themes and ethics implicitly and making everything obvious and facile. Then there's the question, is creating an alternative world at all blasphemous? (Not advocating that position, only asking the question)

PC: No. I think it's easy to call anything blasphemous. Doesn't mean there is any legitimate argument there.

RO: (Christian Fandom) LotR for example, used a pre-Christian setting. Does that make a difference?

PC: Well, in Tolkein for example, there isn't a lot of overt religion. Characters don't sit around talking about it, etc. I find Tolkein more interesting that CS Lewis. Tolkein was kind of a grumpy old bastard, but Lewis was a little more like "Christian fanboy." (Doesn't dislike Lewis, only comparatively.)

JR: Well, Lewis was an Ulster Protestant, Tolkien was a cradle catholic. Does that influence the different perspectives? Lewis, for example, used allegory very consciously, whereas Tolkien used the idea of "sub-creation".

PC: But LotR uses allegory too. Destruction of the ring = destruction of ego.

JR: But Lewis allegory too easy / obvious.

Q: To clarify. Tolkien wasn't a cradle catholic. Converted at ~6 with mother/brother, didn't live in a Catholic neighborhood, but raised from 12 by a priest. Lewis raised Anglican, then left (angry at God for not existing) and rejoined church in 30s.

GS: How much of a work is about "ethics / morals" and how much is about "religion"?

PC: Good question. Is LotR only considered Christian because we know about Tolkien being Catholic? No, but the themes are subtle, not intrusive or exclusive. Also, I think the pre-Christian setting does make a difference.

RO: Much of the Christian Worldview only shows up in the Silmarillion.

PC: The "Christ journey" is a big part of Western Culture. "Superman 2", King Arthur, Dr. Who, the super-being who wants to know what it's like to be human.

GS: What about the new Dr. Who series that seems to be moving a bit more towards giving the Doctor sexuality?

PC: Well the asexuality sort of grew into the series. It wasn't integral to the concept.

GS: Let's talk about Dante. Caused some serious controversy in its day. Is there a distinction between made-up or pre-Christian world and a post-Christian world? Is Pre-Christian easier because it avoids debates?

JR: Doesn't avoid all debates. Tolkien's treatment of other races in LotR. Racism? Maybe, but not portrayed as "the other". Sam wondering about the fallen wild man, etc. Numenorians seen as a master race? It's an oversimplification, but there are subtle things there.

RO: But of course, he was writing 50-60 years ago.

Q: Not racist, just ethnocentric.

Q: Tolkien was pre-campbell, distinction between Christ figure and Hero figure?

PC: Tolkien's religion forms the emotional base of his work, rather than the intellectual intent. The starting place, not the objective.

Q: What sort of reception can a Christian writer expect from the SF community?

GS: Gene Wolfe, catholic, books can be read as Christian works, very successful.

PC: Much secular writing being informed by Christianity, as opposed to "Christian" works preaching to the choir.

RO: Much "Christian" SF is too obvious, beats you over the head. Also Brenda Clough is another good example of how to do it right, writes for Tor.

JR: I find I can't keep religion out of my work. It's the most interesting subject.

PC: Christian Iconography often appropriated by non-religious. Crosses, etc. in Buffy. Daleks have God now.

JR: some books "about" religion. Ex. "Small Gods" by Terry Pratchett.

PC: Cylons in BG, a bit subversive, monotheists attempting to exterminate the polytheistic humans.

JR: Then there is a lot of manga and anime, which is informed by completely different worldviews.

Q: Is there a legitimate danger of being pigeon-holed as a "Christian" writer, as opposed to a writer who happens to be Christian?

PC: Can happen. The BBC for example, keeps me as a sort of pet. (Laughs) The high-ups like me around so they can tell their friends they know someone who's religious.

Q: What about modern scandals? Do they impact SF/F writing?

GS: I don't think there's much impact really.

RO: Makes some things a little touchy.

JR: There's a direct impact on the institution itself, but fiction is a step removed from that, and fantasy is another step removed. Fantasy refracts current events through a prism. Scandals are very temporal.

RO: If books focus too much on a scandal, they become dated very quickly.

PC: But Dune, with it's spice = oil metaphor, intentional or not, isn't dated. Recommendation GK Chesterton.

GS: Echoes recommendation.

PC: I heard the story of someone who was converted by GKC.

Chatter

GS: I think we're all agreed though that there will always be religion in one form or another.

Q: Anyone who is doing it (writing Christian SF) badly?

GS: (Laughs) Now you want us to be mean.

RO: Half of Christian Fiction section is bad. Left Behind series started out interesting, but got terrible quickly.

Q: I'm not impressed by Stephen Lawhead.

Chatter: Lawhead uneven, some of the Arthur stuff okay

PC: Arthur myths interesting as blending of Christianity and Paganism.

Q: I heard a story about the publishing of Left Behind...

RO: LaHaye was upset with the publishers about publishing another book that upset him, and he wanted them to not put it out.

GS: Where is there room for questioning things in fiction? Writing a book kind of "sets in stone".

PC: Can't leave monuments, only markers, snapshots of where you are when you write.

Q: Is The Screwtape Letters Fantasy?

Panel: Yes.

PC: What about Christians who like the Hammer horror movies where anyone can use a cross and fend of a vampire, etc?

RO: It's about the faith, not the symbol. Example: Father Callahan in Salem's Lot. Cross worked at first, but he started to put his faith in the cross instead of God and it failed him.

PC: In Curse of Fenric, a character's faith in communism allows him to use the hammer and sickle to repel vampires. Also, weird mix with Whedon and Christianity.

Q: Is any expansion of the Christ story a blasphemy?

PC: I see it as 4 gospels, 4 versions, it provokes a writerly response. Think it's totally fair to see a distinction between the historical presence and the specific words.